The fact of the matter, however, is that if you want the installation to last, then you will need to make use of grout. The darkish brown lines in between the bright white tiles seemed to accentuate the not-so-random pattern, plus it had seen years and years of wet feet and sporadic bathroom cleaners. It's just really tiny grout joints. Tiles installed without grout have a much higher chance of breaking. First house: I told the contractor what needed to be done; second: I decided what all needed to be done, researched, selected and bought the materials and did some myself. It does not matter what the size of the project is, there are certain elements that are very likely to get between your tiles if you do not grout them. I make sure to inform myself about all aspects of any work on our houses. It does tend to take up a lot of time and it requires a lot of effort and hard work. According to the American National Standards for Ceramic Tile, 0.0025 inches is the maximum allowable variance to install ceramic tiles without grout. Thanks Terriks and Bill, I had a feeling it was not good to do. The carpet is for the bedrooms only - everything else is hardwood except tile in the bathrooms. Here we take a look at whether you can tile without grout. Of course, I wouldn't want those anywhere near a shower. Any ideas? We have renovated 3 houses. All I can guess is it is about $75 a sq yd with installation and padding. Having said all of these, let us now take a look at why installing tiles without grout lines is a bad idea and why you should not break traditional tiling methods. Have done a lot of research, looked up the TCNA standards and explanation of the various reasons why it should be a certain grout line width and how to reduce lippage. Thanks for clarifying. You may be wondering as to the reasoning behind it because grout does not add any extra stability to the tile installation, so why exactly is it so necessary? Well, very simply put, the short and simple answer is a no. PPC-- You may HAVE seen an ungrouted floor. There may also be cases where installing tiles without grout may make the result seem better. The rooms were stripped to the sub-floor months ago. It takes up a lot of time, and it requires meticulous work. Let's talk about grout size options. First things first, all the tiles need to be cut at a 45-degrees miter. HELP ASAP!! For excess thinset in the grout joints, use a pencil, margin trowel or something that fits between the tiles without causing them to shift and remove the thinset. It makes me wonder how such practices get started. Grout prevents the tiles from rubbing against one another when they go through the process of expansion and contraction. Most carpet stores will do much better. Given enough time, these debris and dust will accumulate to such an extent that it will ruin the whole tiling installation. Back to why it's a bad idea. Is this a wise thing to do and how do you keep the water from getting onto the wallboard behind the tiles. My sister-in-law redid her bath and had limestone installed in the shower area, but without grout. A flawless, lustrous surface contributes to elegant and minimalistic look of the room, making it seem more spacious. If my hunch is correct regarding the sizing of the tiles then try and have the the grout lines on the base board hit the mid point on the floor tile. I would wait a bit before trashing the project. The purpose of grout is to prevent such scenarios from taking place. Consider a narrow tile spacer if possible. Why's that, you might wonder. Use black epoxy grout for granite that is dark and white for lighter granite tiles. We have a Time and Materials contract - short for "come in and rob me blind." This can be a pretty daunting task as just even the smallest of mistakes has the potential to permanently damage the tiles which will then need repairs or replacements. When you butt tiles together, there is still a very small gap. This means that you will have to work on them again. The GC just wants to throw business to a friend. It's not like grout … Grout is a necessary and integral part of many tile jobs for several reasons: It keeps moisture out … Period. Cement and epoxy versions have different appearances, durability and rules of installation, Choose From a Palette of Grout Colors for a Warm, Unified Look, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Cracked tile, broken drill bits and sloppy-looking fixture installations? The GC will not make the sub fix things. Layman’s Definition of Grout – Cement stuff with color that is used to fill the gaps in between tiles. Just in the kitchens forum alone there have been many who've ignored my advice and gone forward with groutless installations. Some are more knowledgeable about one thing, others about something else. These tiles, known as vitrified tiles, can be installed with no gap or grout joint between them. In order to check off all the boxes, you'll need to mix the thin-set and grout just right, apply it evenly, and give it time to cure. The Importance Of Sealing Your Stone And Tile Floors The most important role of grouting is hiding any differences in size between tiles.Floor tile without grout. It is pretty understandable that most people who install tiles have a sort of love-hate relationship with grout. Because the tiles move, as a result, the edges of the tiles will regularly rub with each other. Special types, such as slate or quarry tiles, often do not have edges uniform enough to look good with tight spacing. What grout does, is that it allows you to cover the differences in the sizes of the tiles and get a better grip on the final outcome. Aug 23, 2017 … Well, the short answer would be a simple no – you should not attempt to install tile without grout. No matter WHERE it's being installed in the home, it's a bad idea. It was time for a refresh. on that organic matter. When you butt tiles together, there is still a very small gap. Tile and grout do not provide the waterproofing in a shower. Belgravia Capital Holdings Ltd Water can and does get behind tile and grout, regardless of the size of the grout line. Each material has its limits/rules. Cliks is designed to be used on interior floors that are not exposed to standing water which basically means they can be used anywhere except the shower. This is yet another reason to ditch the entire concept of installing tiles without the use of grout. But as a DIY with request from the spouse (who hates seeing the grout lines), we plan to cover the raised concrete fireplace hearth with porcelain tiles and no grout. Cancork, I understand what you are saying. Don’t ever lay tile without grout, the tile will prematurely crack and chip rubbing against each other. I am planning on redoing our bathroom and want to have tile installed in the shower area. Grout is an important part of the tile installation process. No, it's a bad idea, but not for the reasons you think. Tile and grout do not provide the waterproofing in a shower. The waterproofing is done behind the tile. Doesn't mean it's right, or even a good idea. Now think about that for a second, do you want that to happen to your tiles? If your tile project is in a dry area, you can install a specific kind of ceramic tile without grout. Here is my other thought: If you are so set on wood-look flooring install wood! Vitrified tiles are straight and square and can be installed butted up against one another without a joint. This is a nice area and there are mNy high end stores and many clients that would teAr a bad apple in court if there were problems. This will make the final outcome look a bit off and also look very unprofessional. Rectified tiles are perfectly uniform, with precisely defined edges, requiring the least amount of grout. We are looking for nice, but not over the top woven nylon (no wool) carpets - the kind that can look good for 20+ years. Although in some people’s opinion butting the tiles against one another looks better than having even the smallest grout lines, it is not a recommended installation procedure. It is imperative that YOU inform YOURSELF. I'd much rather have grout between my tiles than a bunch of gross junk. Narrow grout lines are becoming popular because less grout means less cleaning and maintenance. Having said all of these, let us now take a look at why installing tiles without grout lines is a bad idea and why you should not break traditional tiling methods. Granted, I love the thought of not having to deal with keeping grout lines cleaned, but would be concerned about wall damage and possibly mold build up between the tiles. Grout acts as a buffer in instances such as this. Rust-Oleum HOME Floor Paint makes it simple and affordable. Luckily I'm old enough to say that this is my last. I wanted a 1/16th grout line, but will go with 1/4 grout lines, based on TCNA recommendations and I will use Mapei medium bed mortar for large tile and the sanded grout is the color of the tile or slightly darker. Better reason than that. That said, I think the floor that ASI Renovations laid looks beautiful and you can come lay a floor in our house anytime. Then there is also the common statement that when you install tiles without grout, it simply looks better and that it makes the work seem much more well put together. I find things all over the Internet- my favorite place to shop- put cant even get a weak approximation to what certain carpets cost. There are some tiles that are designed not to have grout. Sophie, I understand what you are saying...but, 3/8 is actually 1/8th wider than 1/4. Grout Lines for Floor Tiles As a general rule, floor tiles should have grout lines of 1/8 inch or larger, depending on the type and size of tile; most floor tiles are 8 inches by 8 inches, but larger versions are available. If the tiles are not identical they will appear unaligned. Why you need grout a lot of natural stones namely granites and marbles. If you want to know why please keep reading. Its all about contractors hiring their friends and keeping them as special. So if the GC's carpet people get the work, I will be 'told' a price ... And if anything goes wrong, I will pay to repair it. Even the smallest of lines can make a world of difference and have the potential to make the tiles fit perfectly. Thanks. I've seen a lot of people do gray grout with the white subway tiles lately. did you see that Home Makeover, they put in the floor tile without grout and they said it was super terrific. It can be things such as dust, dead cells or may be even other debris. No one can know everything. All of the new "stacked stone" type tiles would look absurd with grout lines. Grout Locks or secures the tile besides “assurance” of straight lines. I swear that as client, I am #2 behind the GC's employees and subcontractors. Epoxy vs. Cement Grout — What's the Difference? But my GC will likely show up for 10 minutes when carpet installation begins, and thats it. How Do I Keep White Marble Tile from Tuning Grey When Installed. Help me clean it. Wipe the tile one final time to remove any thinset on the surface sides of the grout joint. There needs to be. Rectified tiles allow for the smallest grout joints Rectified tile has very exact edges. Actual finished grout spaces will vary from 1/8" to 1/4" if 3/16" spacers are used. If this is a dry-wall application, such as a kitchen backsplash, you may not wish to grout this tiles at all. However, the experts will normally in almost all cases tell you that this option is not a particularly good one. Published: 13.01.2020. I've only bought new homes, never remodeled used ones. Rectified tiles are perfectly uniform, with precisely defined edges, requiring the least amount of grout. I've seen pictures of floors (not shower floors, just floors) where it looks like stone tile is butted up against each other, is that just really small grout joints? installing subway tile in matte white, chosing grout color. ". At least you get the wood look, but it is tile. I still am not sure if there are advantages. Nope. No grout tile or rectified tiles are cut at an angle so that they may not need grout because they are cut to an accuracy of 0.2 mm and don't have the unaligned look. En savoir plus. Hi this is a really old thread but I've discovered a product (Norstone Platinum Planc) that stands by no grout, even in the shower. They are smooth and uniform edges that let you get the smallest joint possible (usually 1/8 or 3/16”). Not when you follow these pro tips, Wall-mounted pit stops are handy in more than just man caves — and they can look better than you might think, Get your grout right to keep your tile beautiful and for an installation that will last, Heading into darker territory, subway tile offers a graphic new look for kitchens, bathrooms and more, Banish an eyesore and safeguard your bathroom from water damage in 30 minutes or less with this DIY repair, Step 3 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick the right tile and test it out, then choose your grout color and type, Personnaliser mon expérience à l'aide de cookies. When re-modeling floors, bathroom or a kitchen almost everybody wants to have the minimum grout lines between their tiles. Many homeowners dream of a perfectly smooth floor without unaesthetic lines. There are only 4 bedrooms, and about 100 quick digital shots of the new baseboards, etc will be helpful. what can I do to improve this corner beside my powder room vanity. The waterproofing is done behind the tile. The "_______" will take responsibility argument is weak. I've also found that carpet (in particular) seems to be an item where you have to actually sit down ready to buy before you even get a ball park estimate of what it costs. After close to $1M in renovations, I have learned my lessons many times. I do hope you're adding some kind of color elsewhere, somehow. Turn your deck into a patio -- they’ll cover any level surface. She lives in Florida and said it is done a lot down there. Mastic should NEVER be used to install stone, ANYWHERE. Frankly if you are Canadian, the construction industry sounds a bit more civilized than here. Back to why it's a bad idea. Probably the best way to avoid this nightmarish scenario is to, yes, you guessed it right, use grout in the process of installation. I will make sure our installer spends the necessary time on making sure the subfloor and cement boards are properly prepared. Even with rectified tiles, it is not recommended to lay tiles without grout. Just go white and hide the grout. First, the smallest grout lines, less than 1/8 inch, are ideal for rectified tiles. To put it very simply, the various natural materials such as stones, are usually manufactured for use with a size that is pretty consistent and they all look almost totally identical. All other cuts of tile, from tumbled to chiseled to punched, contain slight variations in shape and size. The GC offers a 1 year warranty by law. Even if all the tiles look like they are the same size I can nearly guarantee they are not. But without applying grout, there will always be those small pesky spaces that can act as magnets for attracting debris and dust. Finished grout lines will vary from 1/16" to 3/16". Floor tiles without grout - is it possible? Another reason not to do it is that many tiles are not exactly the same size, and they will not line up properly. Use epoxy to grout a countertop in the small spaces that may get overlooked. This means larger grout lines, 3/16 inch for example, are necessary to achieve a polished look without emphasizing these variations. Can you lay tile without grout lines? I would never just have someone make the decisions about anything that I am paying for and have to live with. 19 Fitzroy Square, London, W1T 6EQ, Copyright © 2017. Leave the tile spacers in place while the adhesive is … 9 Ways Grout–Yes, Grout–Can Add to Your Design, Finishing Touches: Pro Tricks for Installing Fixtures in Your Tile, 3 Key Steps for Grouting That Looks Its Best, Living Small: City & Small Space Consulting, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower — the Tiling and Grouting Phase. Even though the differences are very small, they can, however, disturb the process of groutless installation. It’s easy to paint the entire surface but consider getting creative by NOT painting the grout lines. Tiles must be spaced evenly, using spacers, and weight must be kept off it while it sets. Make sure your floor is clean of dirt and debris. Having wood-like-tile installed, what size of grout line?? It makes me wonder how such practices get started. Now, as for the OP-- Although the grey thinset will make a difference, I think alot of what you're seeing is moisture from the thinset. You have to respect, install and treat it accordingly. Once that dries, it WILL lighten up some. To see tiles that are not aligned properly after you spend hours toiling on installing them, we can assume would be the last thing you would want. No, it's a bad idea, but not for the reasons you think. You should not try to get tiles installed without grout. There is a very good chance that by simply looking at the tiles that you have at your disposal, you may think they are of the same size, but there are very high chances that they are not in fact of the same size. Understandably, most installers have a love-hate relationship with grout. I am getting ready to have 6x24 wood-look porcelain tile installed. Yes there does exist other tips and tricks to make use of but the fact of the matter is that they only minimize the impact and they most definitely do not stop the tiles from moving and hence rubbing against one another. This means that you will have to work on them again. DIY-friendly, groutless stone tiles are about $12 per square foot. Another very important point to note is that you should not make the mistake of assuming that you can clean the tiles after they have been installed. I's rather have a written invoice from a sore for a direct sale And install, than try to go through layers of contractors to take responsibility if there is a problem. They will go on to tell you that even the thinnest of grout lines can make a world of difference. Use vitrified tiles, which are made of compressed clay dust, if you wish to install tiles without grout. There are special grouts for "invisible" joints. Something like this (picture shown tiles fitting closed to each other - Not fireplace specific): Obviously I have never done tile without grout before. Just curious. What I've seen, especially with sub-contractors (like carpet), that they rely on the GC to protect them. It is important to note that when you put these tiles together, the tiny irregularities that cannot be seen by the eyes, do add up to make it much more noticeable. Groutless tile has a higher Good website to shop online for backsplash tile? This is the very reason that many who are new to tile installation may think that grout is not necessary. The house we are living in, I designed, selected, purchased the material and hired the contractor to do the job according to my instructions. If smaller spacers like 1/8" are used, it will accentuate the size difference of handmade tile. Does anyone have any experience with Norstone products - particularly the Platinum Planc? Without these precise edges, much more grout is needed to even things out across the floor. All Rights Reserved, Safety, Standards and Parameters of EICR Reports, The Pros and Cons of Bridging Loans: All You Need to Know, Initiatives Launched Addressing Problematic Gambling, How the Global Film Industry Will Bounce Back. Given what I have just said, are there advantages of carpet stores vs contractors brokering the deal? Exactly right. "No matter WHERE it's being installed in the home, it's a bad idea". If this area will be subject to water or moisture, you will still need to grout the tiles, despite their lack of joint. Yes, they should have had the customer sign off. That alone puts me on alert for price gouging. There are cases when laying tile without grout will probably leave the job looking a lot better.But here’s the thing: if you want the job to last, then you need to use grout. Tiles move, yes you read that right, tiles do move. How much it lightens up all depends on the quality (density) of the stone. Here's how to do it. This will result in a final outcome that has a very nice and symmetrical look. You can literally spend hours toiling and putting the tiles together and you may even be pretty pleased with the result. These outdoor tiles are backed with plastic grids with interlocking tabs that simply snap together. I’ve seen non grouted ceramic, granite, marble, limestone in a wide variety of locations, airports, subways, palace and museums all without grout lines/spaces cannot recall in my 81 years noticeable ugly signs of an issue caused by lack of grout … I suppose as many times as I've seen/heard people installing tile in a shower over drywall with no waterproofing of any kind, I shouldn't be surprised to see something else done incorrectly. Everyone likes a different width when it comes to grout lines. First, Debbi's half right. Homeowners Definition of Grout – The dirty lines between my tiles. It should be white THINSET. ", .............ya know , I was reading on the internet last nite. Every single tile installation is never complete without grout. Grout is grout, right? I am on a time crunch so I cant do much comparison, but I expect the experience to be like buying used cars. Water can and does get behind tile and grout, regardless of the size of the grout line. Best of all: no grungy grout to repair or refill. Is it wise to use General Contractor for carpet install? Tiles installed without grout have a much higher chance of breaking. Yes, you can paint your floors! Therefore in order to get the grout lines to match, you may need to cut either the floor or the base board tiles which can add considerable cost to your project in terms of labor and material. If you don't fill it grout, something else will find its way in there, and that something else will be soap scum, dead skin cells, dirt, etc., which increases the odds of growing mold, etc. I have had numerous problems, and even brought in an attorney at times. These can all find a way in between your tiles and it does not matter how tight you think the installation is. The tiles are just butted up to each other. This will create a crisp line to the lip and provide the countertop with a … Some even want to install their tiles with no grout at all. This makes a lot of people want to install them without grout lines. But what this really costs is beyond me, and I'm sure there is extreme variation. The point is that because they move, unless you install grout, they will, eventually, chip and break. It CAN be, but unless you're using a grout with a fine (staining) pigment to it, there's no need. One question that has been asked throughout the ages has been, can you tile without grout? If the installation looks like an amateur job, or your grout lines are all wrong, you're defeating all your goals. En continuant à naviguer sur ce site ou à utiliser cette application, j'accepte que le groupe Houzz utilise des cookies ou d'autres technologies similaires pour améliorer ses produits et services, me proposer du contenu pertinent et personnaliser l'expérience utilisateur. All the contractors we have worked with prefer it that way because they don't have to try to figure out what we want. Secondly Marble does NOT need to be sealed prior to installation. I am a wallet to them. With some painter’s tape and patience, you can create a stunning new look. If you have ever seen tiles, either on walls or the floors, then you have seen grout. This includes contractors. This is likely to cause the tiles to chip or even break at some point in the future. The quick answer is nothing closer than 1/16. The differences are usually so minor and miniscule, that it is almost impossible to tell apart without the help of some sort of precise measurement. Calculating and cutting tiles The next ting worth considering is the importance of properly cutting tiles, as well as making a calculation for a countertop without grout lines. Unless they are “rectified” they will differ, even if only a tiny amount, from tile to … We will assume no, hence grout. Personally, I think it looks like your grout is old and moldy when you do that.